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General Category => General Discussion! => Topic started by: Mort, the Lonely on December 09, 2010, 03:43:13 pm

Title: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Mort, the Lonely on December 09, 2010, 03:43:13 pm
Okay, this isn't a Rage = Lose thread, but what I'm about to post will have that effect.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/12/09/kansas.edwards.picket/index.html

And if you're fortunate enough to not know who the Westborough Baptist Church are, these people picket the funerals of soldiers, claiming they'll go to hell for 'being faggots', and even picketed the 2010 San Diego Comic-Con for 'worshipping false idols'.

It's hard to believe their are people out there like this. This is sort of a freedom of speech issue.

On the one hand, I'm for it (see Wikileaks), on the other, I'm against it (see this group of wankers), and I can't have it both ways.

Do you think this protest should be halted by the government? Should it be allowed through for 'freedom of speech'?
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Kitty on December 09, 2010, 04:37:40 pm
Freedom of speech already has the provision of not putting people in danger (ergo no shouting FIRE in a movie theater) so I don't see any reason why it couldn't also be restricted against purposefully antagonistic behaviour, if that makes sense.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Mort, the Lonely on December 09, 2010, 04:59:03 pm
Freedom of speech already has the provision of not putting people in danger (ergo no shouting FIRE in a movie theater) so I don't see any reason why it couldn't also be restricted against purposefully antagonistic behaviour, if that makes sense.

Thing is Kitty, local police sent SWAT to their picketing of a funeral of a war hero, which was gonna draw a crowd against the church, to PROTECT these people.

Nobody has stopped them from doing what they do, and they've been doing it for decades. The most action we've seen against these people was a bunch of nerds cosplaying ganging up on them in San Diego and running them off.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: ybbald on December 09, 2010, 06:38:07 pm
You can't force stupid to stop being stupid. You can only try to educate stupid
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Kwiftee on December 09, 2010, 07:00:35 pm
Well no, but you can force stupid people to stop talking. It's just whether or not that's fair.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Velocity on December 09, 2010, 07:31:33 pm
They're not a religion, they're a hate cult. I think these sorry excuses for humans are already banned from the UK. Heard of them when I saw a documentary about their family, "The most hated family in America" and lost on grounds of rage. It's probably on Youtube.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Indigo Blue on December 09, 2010, 07:44:37 pm
you forgot to say that they also picket funerals of homosexuals, people who died from AIDS, jews (i dunno if that is the correct way to say it) and people who support homosexuals
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Neko Desu on December 09, 2010, 08:14:13 pm
Quote from: FAGGOT
"You can't preach the Bible without preaching the hatred of God."

Even my religious friends have raged at this.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Velocity on December 09, 2010, 09:02:15 pm
Off topic: They have their fucking picket schedule on their websites (http://www.godhatesfags.com.)
Why the hell hasn't Anonymous hijacked their entire tour yet?
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Neko Desu on December 09, 2010, 11:46:54 pm
Off topic: They have their fucking picket schedule on their websites (http://www.godhatesfags.com.)
Why the hell hasn't Anonymous hijacked their entire tour yet?

I cannot access that website.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Mort, the Lonely on December 10, 2010, 02:34:38 pm
Off topic: They have their fucking picket schedule on their websites (http://www.godhatesfags.com.)
Why the hell hasn't Anonymous hijacked their entire tour yet?
I cannot access that website.

You mean you can't get on or refuse to do so?

Just so everyone fully understands what the police and freedom of speech is protecting here, here's what they have on their 'About The WBC' page.

Since 1955, WBC has taken forth the precious from the vile, and so is as the mouth of God (Jer. 15:19). In 1991, WBC began conducting peaceful demonstrations opposing the fag lifestyle of soul-damning, nation-destroying filth.

In response, america bombed WBC, sued WBC, prosecuted WBC, burned WBC. God is now america's enemy: 5,854 dead soldiers; 218,400,000+ gals. of oil in the Gulf; $13.9 trillion+ national debt. "Arise, O LORD, in thine anger...because of the rage of mine enemies..." (Ps 7:6)

america crossed the line on June 26, 2003, when the Supreme Court ruled in Lawrence v. Texas that we must respect sodomy. WBC's gospel message is your last hope.

Established in 1955 by Pastor Fred Phelps, the Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) of Topeka, Kansas still exists today as an Old School (or, Primitive) Baptist Church. We adhere to the teachings of the Bible, preach against all form of sin (e.g., fornication, adultery [including divorce and remarriage], sodomy), and insist that the sovereignty of God and the doctrines of grace be taught and expounded publicly to all men. These doctrines of grace were well summed up by John Calvin in his 5 points of Calvinism: Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Irresistible Grace, and Perseverance of the Saints. Although these doctrines are almost universally hated today, they were once loved and believed. Even though the Arminian lies that "God loves everyone" and "Jesus died for everyone" are being taught from nearly every pulpit in this generation, this hasn't always been the case. If you are in a church that supposedly believes the Bible, and you are hearing these lies, then your church doesn't teach what the Bible teaches. If you care about your never-dying soul, you will carefully read every word of this web site, along with the entire Bible.

WBC engages in daily peaceful sidewalk demonstrations opposing the homosexual lifestyle of soul-damning, nation-destroying filth. We display large, colorful signs containing Bible words and sentiments, including: GOD HATES FAGS, FAGS HATE GOD, AIDS CURES FAGS, THANK GOD FOR AIDS, FAGS BURN IN HELL, GOD IS NOT MOCKED, FAGS ARE NATURE FREAKS, GOD GAVE FAGS UP, NO SPECIAL LAWS FOR FAGS, FAGS DOOM NATIONS, THANK GOD FOR DEAD SOLDIERS, FAG TROOPS, GOD BLEW UP THE TROOPS, GOD HATES AMERICA, AMERICA IS DOOMED, THE WORLD IS DOOMED, etc.

Perceiving the modern militant homosexual movement to pose a clear and present danger to the survival of America, exposing our nation to the wrath of God as in 1898 B.C. at Sodom and Gomorrah, WBC has conducted 44,723 such demonstrations since June, 1991, at homosexual parades and other events, including funerals of impenitent sodomites (like Matthew Shepard) and over 400 military funerals of troops whom God has killed in Iraq/Afghanistan in righteous judgment against an evil nation. (See a list of cities where WBC has picketed, the letter to the Topeka mayor that set off the Great Gage Park Decency Drive, and read our FAQ for more information). America crossed the line on June 26, 2003, when the Supreme Court (the conscience of the nation) ruled that we must respect sodomy. WBC teams have picketed all over the United States, and internationally (including Canada, Jordan and Iraq). The unique picketing ministry of Westboro Baptist Church has received international attention, and WBC believes this gospel message to be this world's last hope. WBC has been the subject of several documentary films. For example, the BBC's "The Most Hated Family In America," "Keith Allen Will Burn In Hell", "Hatemongers", "Fall From Grace", and "The Significant Minority."

For more information about WBC, feel free to attend one of our weekly church meetings. We are located at 3701 W. 12th Street in Topeka, KS. Regular service time is on Sunday at 12:00 p.m. (Central time).

(http://www.godhatesfags.com/fliers/20101208_Elizabeth-Edwards-in-Hell.pdf)
(http://www.godhatesfags.com/photos/jewsandisrael.jpg)

"McAlester High School in McAlester, OK    December 10, 2010  2:45 PM - 3:15 PM

WBC to picket McAlester High School to remind this nation that the parents and teachers raise these brute beasts they call children for the devil himself. From the womb, they are taught that it is OK to be gay, that God is a liar and you do not have to obey Him, and that you can mistreat His servants with impunity. As a result, they grow up to break the laws of God and man when they engage in vandalism against the humble servants of God from WBC.

Obadiah 15 "For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head."

The Lord God shall repay you to your face on the Day of Judgment for mistreating His prophets. 

Proverbs 3:33 "The CURSE of the LORD is in the house of the wicked: but he blesseth the habitation of the just."

I now honestly believe the Trollface is a self portrait of Fred Phelps.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Yule on December 10, 2010, 02:54:06 pm
Don't you go to Hell for being an asshole? Someone should ask them that.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Velocity on December 10, 2010, 03:11:23 pm
Just found the documentary (http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-most-hated-family-in-america/) again, it's a good watch. Rage = Lose, you'll lose many times.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Mort, the Lonely on December 10, 2010, 03:12:04 pm
Don't you go to Hell for being an asshole? Someone should ask them that.

On their main site, they have a picture up thanking god for BREAST CANCER
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Velocity on December 10, 2010, 03:26:42 pm
Looking at their schedule, they've had four pickets today. Two of them at schools, one of them at a marine base, and one at the city hall.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Banzai ☼ on December 10, 2010, 03:32:00 pm
Just found the documentary (http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-most-hated-family-in-america/) again, it's a good watch. Rage = Lose, you'll lose many times.
"You are a sick..."
"Slight cold, but thankyou."
"...soulless, twisted human being"

That's where I began to lose.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Mort, the Lonely on December 10, 2010, 04:47:02 pm
http://alanagkelly.blogspot.com/2010/07/san-diego-comic-con-vs-westboro-baptist.html

Story on a group of nerds owning the 'Church'.

I love the 4th picture where that one cop is clearly enjoying himself.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Dr Insano on December 10, 2010, 05:37:43 pm
Unfortunately, this is the kind of place we live in. A world where people like this are given a platform to speak, a place where people like this are promoted and the people promoting them are too stupid to realize they are doing so. By inviting Phelps and his ilk (most notably, Shirley Phelps-Roper, who is a disgusting human being herself) onto national television just so you can tell the public how despicable they are, you are giving these people exactly what they want - Attention and a medium through which they can continue to preach hate. Any people who celebrate a woman (a great woman at that) dying from breast cancer, and a war hero being dead just because of his sexual preferences, do not deserve the attention they are given. While they deserve our hate, they should be ignored. It's sad to see their children brainwashed that way, and the sad thing is social services cannot do anything about it as it's under the guise of religion. If you take the religion away from it, these people become nothing more than criminals, those children would have been taken away and given a proper education, and the adults would have been locked up.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Velocity on December 10, 2010, 06:51:13 pm
It's sad to see their children brainwashed that way, and the sad thing is social services cannot do anything about it as it's under the guise of religion. If you take the religion away from it, these people become nothing more than criminals, those children would have been taken away and given a proper education, and the adults would have been locked up.
Somebody had their children taken away when they requested "Adolf Hitler Smith" on a birthday cake, and they found out that was actually the child's name. There is more reason for them to be taken away from the Phelps.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Dr Insano on December 10, 2010, 06:55:30 pm
Yes, there is more reason to take them away, but they can't. You can't take a mans child off him because he's raising him to treat women like slaves and objects because that's what his religion believes.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Neko Desu on December 10, 2010, 06:57:29 pm
Hey, these guys' religion is clearly harming others. There are good religious people out there who don't try to force their beliefs upon others and who keep their dogmas to themselves, but the Phelps family is clearly being prejudice. They should be arrested.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Velocity on December 10, 2010, 07:02:47 pm
The Wikipedia article says that Fred Phelps is being targeted by the Anti-Defamation league.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Dr Insano on December 10, 2010, 07:09:34 pm
Hey, these guys' religion is clearly harming others. There are good religious people out there who don't try to force their beliefs upon others and who keep their dogmas to themselves, but the Phelps family is clearly being prejudice. They should be arrested.

And they can't be. It's the sad way 'freedom of speech' and 'political correctness' has gone to far. All they have to do is say "You're violating my freedom of speech" or "You're stopping me from spreading my beliefs" and the police will let them go on to ruin another persons funeral with a giant smug grin on their face.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Lt. Ragnarok on December 10, 2010, 09:36:18 pm
Yeah, Westboro's headed by a bunch of warped motherfuckers.
: Which explains this • show
(http://backseatblogger.com/racism/kkk_westboro_disown001.jpg)
.

On another note, I've heard it said on 4chan that Fred endeavors to be a professional troll, as evidenced here (http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2010/04/marine_scotus_040510w/). Tl;dr: some people sued Fred and co. for protesting a military funeral, and the sue-ers ended up owing ~$16,000 to Fred Phelps in legal costs.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Neko Desu on December 10, 2010, 09:41:48 pm
Well, the Ku Klux Klan is full of white supremacists that want America to be free of all other races, while the Westboro Baptist Church is a family of religious douchebags who despise atheists, believers of other religions, and homosexuals.

Since I happen to fit in the "hate" list under both of these viewpoints, I don't see how either could be worse.

 
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Lt. Ragnarok on December 10, 2010, 09:54:58 pm
Well, the Ku Klux Klan is full of white supremacists that want America to be free of all other races, while the Westboro Baptist Church is a family of religious douchebags who despise atheists, believers of other religions, and homosexuals.

Since I happen to fit in the "hate" list under both of these viewpoints, I don't see how either could be worse.

 

Look at it like this. The KKK is a sanctuary for a metric shitton of vitriolic douchewhistles. And even they think that Westboro crosses the line on these matters.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Venser on March 02, 2011, 02:18:31 pm
Well, guys, I have bad news for you.

I was just shown an article. I don't have the link on hand, but I can't imagine it'd be too hard to find.

The case of the WBC, which went to the Supreme Court, was decided in favor of the WBC in that they have the free speech to picket what they want (so long as they obey the rules, including being a certain large distance away). The case was 8-1...the dissenting opinion likened the speech to 'fighting words' which aren't protected by the 1st Amendment.

Well, it's not like I'm surprised. Not surprised, but perhaps a tad disappointed.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Neko Desu on March 02, 2011, 03:05:18 pm
America needs to be more liberal and stop allowing harmful examples of free speech in clearly antagonistic ways.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Mort, the Lonely on March 03, 2011, 05:32:51 am
Someone should start protesting their protests. Worked for the geeks.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Fidel CashFlow on March 03, 2011, 08:38:57 am
The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms states that freedom of speech is allowed. But preaching hatred is an offense.
If I could get these guys to picket somewhere in, oh I dunno... The Toronto Gay District (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_and_Wellesley) I could notify authorities and have them charged or at least harassed by some good old Toronto Police force hospitality. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aohGLp00MmU)
Yay or Nay?
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: That One Guy on March 03, 2011, 06:45:57 pm
Do you think this protest should be halted by the government? Should it be allowed through for 'freedom of speech'?

If we're lucky, it will be halted.

But, we have idiots in our government, so there's a 75% chance of them being allowed to wrongly accuse soldiers of being homosexual.

This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVgUoVT97PA) video sums it up well, but it is about christianity itself
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Fidel CashFlow on March 04, 2011, 08:47:50 am
The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms states that freedom of speech is allowed. But preaching hatred is an offense.
If I could get these guys to picket somewhere in, oh I dunno... The Toronto Gay District (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_and_Wellesley) I could notify authorities and have them charged or at least harassed by some good old Toronto Police force hospitality. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aohGLp00MmU)
Yay or Nay?
I doubt they'd go to Canada.
They've been contemplating it apparently.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Alpha on March 14, 2011, 04:38:43 pm
Bump because I can't find the actual website. Is it just me, or is it not there?
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Neko Desu on March 14, 2011, 04:57:50 pm
www.godhatesfags.com
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Alpha on March 14, 2011, 05:12:05 pm
No good. It says it can't connect.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Neko Desu on March 14, 2011, 05:23:38 pm
You probably live in Canada. I can't connect either.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Venser on March 14, 2011, 05:36:51 pm
No, either someone is DDoSing them, or their server is down. No one can connect.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Alpha on March 14, 2011, 05:40:09 pm
You probably live in Canada. I can't connect either.

Georgia, but close.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Velocity on March 14, 2011, 05:48:43 pm
Can't connect from Northern Ireland.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: SilentLoner on March 14, 2011, 06:22:53 pm
Keep it serious, guys. Or, at least add something to the discussion if you're going to make jokes.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Venser on March 14, 2011, 06:34:06 pm
Sorry, forgot I was in serious. Anyway, it's definitely down.

http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/godhatesfags.com
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Alpha on March 14, 2011, 07:01:08 pm
Hmm...it's probably Anon. This was their threat, after all.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Neko Desu on March 16, 2011, 02:10:36 pm
http://jroycroft.wordpress.com/2011/03/02/us-supreme-court-upholds-westboro-baptist-churchs-right-to-spew-hate-at-funerals-of-fallen-soldiers/

US, I am disappoint.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: ybbald on March 16, 2011, 03:52:40 pm
cOLD

it should be classified as hate speech >.>
I mean really, if that isn't hate speech, what is?
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Neko Desu on March 16, 2011, 04:01:31 pm
Does US allow racism hate speech?
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: ybbald on March 16, 2011, 04:05:22 pm
It's not supposed to allow hate speech but  the court didn't consider it hate speech
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Neko Desu on March 16, 2011, 04:12:50 pm
They need to get their heads out of their asses, then. Or is the US supreme court full of old conservative Republicans?

I am disgust.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: ybbald on March 16, 2011, 04:20:52 pm
btw, you DO know I don't hate homosexuals and I'm just messing with you around here, right?
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Neko Desu on March 16, 2011, 04:36:35 pm
Yes.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Sarah on March 16, 2011, 06:03:22 pm
If this isn't hate speech, I don't know what is. The LGBT community, unlike these cumbags (no, not a typo), deserves equal and fair treatment.

Let me guess - they're saying Japan deserved their earthquake too, right? >_>

This is why I hate religion. It's passed off as a good thing. HOW IS THIS GOOD?
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Fidel CashFlow on March 16, 2011, 06:13:21 pm
Lets take a look at who is in power right now, old people. Old people run politics right now, the values that they grew up with were basically racial segregation and intolerance to the LGBT community. That's just the way things were when they were raised. Basically all we have to do is wait for the majority of the old racists to die off.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Alpha on March 17, 2011, 11:42:35 am
Or kill them ourselves. This kind of nonsense is despised by other Christians. Really, it's despised especially by other Christians, because of the way it portrays all of their religion.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: That One Guy on March 19, 2011, 10:12:12 am
http://jroycroft.wordpress.com/2011/03/02/us-supreme-court-upholds-westboro-baptist-churchs-right-to-spew-hate-at-funerals-of-fallen-soldiers/

US, I am disappoint.

It's the US. They're too fucking idiotic to reveal that there is no god, so they support the religious faggot extremists instead of just religious faggots.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Neko Desu on March 19, 2011, 01:44:59 pm
http://forums.wildshadow.com/node/2208
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Yule on April 20, 2011, 04:20:39 pm
Westboro got pwned in Mississippi.

http://thehayride.com/2011/04/westboro-baptist-church-goes-to-mississippi-and-loses/ (http://thehayride.com/2011/04/westboro-baptist-church-goes-to-mississippi-and-loses/)
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Alpha on April 20, 2011, 04:59:16 pm
Fuck yeah. TiA=L
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Neko Desu on April 20, 2011, 06:20:51 pm
I like how the trucks just happened to be in front of the Kansas cars. And the drivers mysteriously disappeared until after the funeral.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Valkema on April 20, 2011, 07:17:34 pm
I like how the trucks just happened to be in front of the Kansas cars. And the drivers mysteriously disappeared until after the funeral.
Yeah I found that funny too. Serves them right. It's not like we would protest a funeral of there just because they do something we don't.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Angrystu on June 14, 2011, 08:10:25 pm
I'd heard about what happened to them in Mississippi, and it did my heart good.

I don't like that their actions get protected under "free speech" and "religious freedom" as they're being quite deliberately offensive. The people I feel worst for though is the kids. Frankly I don't think that religious doctrine should be forced on someone so young as to be legally unable to make up their mind. Imagine if you had to be 18 (or 21 in the states? I dunno how it works south of the border) to go to a church or to have any religion targetted at you (think about legislation to stop cigarettes from being advertised to kids).

Anyways, my two cents on the matter: if I ever see them at a military funeral that I'm at, I'm going to be all sorts of nasty regardless of whether or not I'm in uniform.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Pennywise on June 15, 2011, 02:00:45 pm

It's the US. They're too fucking idiotic to reveal that there is no god, so they support the religious faggot extremists instead of just religious faggots.

Don't get me wrong, I hate the U.S., but I think that in a sense you are doing the same thing by saying "they are too fucking idiotic to reveal that there is no god". The fact of the matter isn't whether god exists or not, because it can't be proven either way, it's how we interpret god. To quote Stephen Hawking "One can't prove that God doesn't exist, but science makes God unnecessary.".
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: That One Guy on June 15, 2011, 05:23:15 pm

It's the US. They're too fucking idiotic to reveal that there is no god, so they support the religious faggot extremists instead of just religious faggots.

Don't get me wrong, I hate the U.S., but I think that in a sense you are doing the same thing by saying "they are too fucking idiotic to reveal that there is no god". The fact of the matter isn't whether god exists or not, because it can't be proven either way, it's how we interpret god. To quote Stephen Hawking "One can't prove that God doesn't exist, but science makes God unnecessary.".

Huh...Never thought of that. I really should think things through instead of just running through it without a thought.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: ybbald on June 15, 2011, 05:50:21 pm
The WBC cannot criticize fags because it might offend people
Atheists cannot criticize religion because they might offend people
discuss

I hate the WBC and what they stand for, but freedom of speech is important
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Neko Desu on June 15, 2011, 06:47:57 pm
While homosexuality occurs naturally, religion does not. It is something that is indoctrinated upon people's minds; therefore we should be open to criticize it.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: ybbald on June 15, 2011, 06:53:01 pm
so anything unnatural cannot be discussed?
we cannot talk about abortion, contraception, artificial insemination, or stem cell research
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Alpha on June 15, 2011, 06:55:51 pm
I think it's hilarious when people say they hate the U.S., but would refuse to live anywhere else.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Neko Desu on June 15, 2011, 06:56:27 pm
so anything unnatural cannot be discussed?
we cannot talk about abortion, contraception, artificial insemination, or stem cell research

.....

By "natural" I meant that homosexuality is no fault of the individual's own and cannot be biologically changed (or can it? Not enough research to say yet). Religion on the other hand is passed on by the indoctrination of lies beliefs from parental or influential figures; it has produced many destructive results, as evidenced by the many religious wars we are having at the moment and throughout history.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: ybbald on June 15, 2011, 07:09:53 pm
so people can't express their views if you don't like them?
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Neko Desu on June 15, 2011, 07:43:17 pm
Since I'm a liberal, I support restrictions upon the freedom of speech; and these "restrictions" mean that you cannot say anything that is directly insulting or causes emotional / psychological harm to another group. So, WBC is free to preach, but as soon as they say "God hates fags," they should not be free to preach anymore.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Pennywise on June 16, 2011, 02:20:32 am
As much as dislike what the WBC(and many other people) say, I think that the first ammendment cannot be ignored for any reason. The fact is that they have a right to publicly express their views and to non-violent protest, and to make them an exception would cause corrupt politicians to cite this instance and manipulate it to their own advantage. I say let the natural(as in, not legal) consequences of their actions play out, and trust that they will one day get their just desserts.

While homosexuality occurs naturally, religion does not. It is something that is indoctrinated upon people's minds; therefore we should be open to criticize it.

Is religion really an unnatural thing? It is often saud that we are sentient beings because we are capable of looking up at the stars and wondering, "what's out there? How does it affect us? How id it begin? Did someone create." From these questions, an intelligent human would attempt to seek an answer, or a personal truth, and thus, they create a religion. Social interaction is a natural part of any beings existence, and what religion essentially is is a universal social phenomonon.



Also, I am not lying when I say I hate the U.S.. I wish I was oput of this intellectual cess-pit and somewhere where ignorance isn't an encouraged social standard. As soon as I get a degree, I'm moving to Canada or Italy. Preferably Italy
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: ybbald on June 16, 2011, 06:01:52 am
Midlight, anyone could claim that something is emotionally harmful to them when someone says something they don't agree with. And I've never heard of liberals wanting to restrict free speech.

Why should you be offended by the phrase "god hates fags" when you don't believe in any god anyway?
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Fidel CashFlow on June 16, 2011, 03:37:12 pm
Master race of Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms reporting in.
Freedom of speech should be limited. The preaching of hatred should be illegal, which it is in Canaderp.
Freedom of speech =/= Freedom to preach hatred.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Neko Desu on June 16, 2011, 06:05:33 pm
Exactly what Fidel Castro Cashflow said.

Simply limit the freedom of speech to "You cannot target, insult, or advocate hatred against a minority." This preserves democracy and allows protest to still be possible in the case of corruption.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: ybbald on June 16, 2011, 07:13:07 pm
can you target a majority?
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Neko Desu on June 16, 2011, 07:15:06 pm
Why would you?
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: ybbald on June 16, 2011, 07:17:56 pm
Are you saying everyone will always agree with the majority? You can't dissent? religion is the majority.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Fidel CashFlow on June 16, 2011, 07:25:31 pm
How about "If anything that you preach advocates hatred, discrimination, prejudice, sexism, homophobia, racism, or any other factors which gradually may lead to genocide; You go to jail."
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: ybbald on June 16, 2011, 07:28:04 pm
that's starting from the assumption genocide is bad, what about those who believe otherwise? Why can't they express their beliefs?
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Neko Desu on June 16, 2011, 08:00:24 pm
Because, we don't want to return back to the dark ages.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: ybbald on June 16, 2011, 08:48:04 pm
who says the dark ages are wrong? Why can't anyone disagree with you? You're saying everyone has to agree on your priority and ideals
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Neko Desu on June 16, 2011, 08:55:46 pm
That's what every politician says. I mean, "liberal" and "conservative" exist for a reason; different politicians want their view of how society should be run imposed upon their country. No one politician can satisfy the needs of every. I am a liberal, and I want equality for all minorities; that's my belief.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Venser on June 17, 2011, 02:02:37 am
Ybbald is right. If you start protecting specific groups, such as minorities, it's particularly unfair and unjust to protect unequally. Therefore, you must protect the opposite groups as well.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Kayin on June 17, 2011, 03:02:32 am
Midlight Dusk, are you such a little bitch that the idea that some people might get their feelings hurt that you're willing to do the far more damaging and damning thing and erode the most BASIC right? That disgusts me. Grow a pair.

And don't bring "I'm a liberal" into this, like somehow that's an excuse for anything, or that 'well that's my belief' gives you an imaginary opinion shield. The vast majority of this board is probably make up of fucking liberals anyways, so what does that even mean? Fuck, I'm probably 'mostly liberal'.  Everyone is entitled to their opinions and some of them suck and ass and some of them are beautifully supported and defended. You don't want to go to the dark ages, but you want to cut freedom of expression? .. And for what? So a bunch of people won't get offended?

No one has the right to not be offended. Every last whitey, spic, nigger, kyke, fag and breeder is going to be offended at some point, but you know what? As much as they hurt, they're just words. They're god damned mouth sounds. They're powerful mouth sounds, as arguably out freedom of speech is our most important. It allows us to communicate ideas and those ideas are what have gotten us to the point where the insane ramblings of a small group like the WBC cannot break us.

And who decides who's a minority anyways? Or whats 'hate speech'? Or what is satire and comedy, and what isn't? What if so called hate speech is valid? If I called Islamic fundamentalists a bunch of sociopaths, is that hate against a minority? Well, actually it is, but is it unjustified? Fuck, are sociopaths minorities? They certainly had no control over it! If a woman is gang raped by a dozen black men and she says something anti black due to her traumatic experience, should she be punished? Even if  what she is saying is unfounded and untrue, should she be punished? If a black woman got raped by a bunch of white men and she had the same thing happen, should she be punished? If blacks go on a breeding rampage and we become the minority, was it retroactively racist now that it's our turn to criticize everyone else?

This is such a loaded issue, with so much to lose and not a lot to gain. It's a high minded ideal with not a shred of practicality and some downright backward misunderstandings about equality. There is a reason we generally don't fuck with the bill of rights. I will grant that guns are a squishy issue, but in general you do not fuck with it.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Neko Desu on June 17, 2011, 12:44:22 pm
Okay.

The freedom of speech here in Canada is more limited than in America, and I like it a lot better that way. There is almost zero racism or sexism (aside from jokes, of course); you cannot express homophobia publicly (especially not in schools), and we really don't experience any problems with it at all. It's just how I prefer my lifestyle.

Edit: There's just something about the WBC that is just intrinsically infuriating. You shouldn't preach hatred against another group if they've never caused any harm to you in the first place. Also, take note that limiting the freedom of speech does not mean inciting hatred against religion; I never said that both groups were unprotected equally. Their rights, along with those of homosexuals, also exist; the problem is that they started it first.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: ybbald on June 17, 2011, 12:54:34 pm
The problem with religion is that those who don't believe it might influence your friends and family to turn away from god, leading them to go to hell. You can't risk your loved ones being influenced by those who are so wrong and do the work of the devil, so you must eradicate them to be safe. After all, they're going to hell anyway. What difference does a few years make?
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Neko Desu on June 17, 2011, 12:59:59 pm
I see that you've acquired an interesting new sig, Mister Parrot.

Some beliefs are just violent and wrong, and they should be eradicated. For example, nazism is banned in Germany, and I don't see any problems they have with the freedom of speech over there. Personally, I don't see any difference between a fundamentalist and a nazi.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Kayin on June 17, 2011, 01:41:58 pm
Can't even have Nazis in video games and IWBTG would have to have green blood to be 'released' there.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Venser on June 17, 2011, 01:49:12 pm
Kayin, that's not strictly true - Nazis in video games can be found there, although oftentimes it will be required that games with Nazis in them are held behind the counter and must be purchased with valid ID. (If I recall correctly, CoD: Black Ops somehow bypassed that, because it has swastikas and such all over the first zombies map).

Regardless, Kayin has pretty much covered everything here very articulately.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Kayin on June 17, 2011, 02:11:31 pm
Doing some reading, it seems the situation is the same. Are you sure they didn't just change the textures? I wouldn't be surprised if they managed to work out their censorship laws better, but I can't find anything on that.

Anyways, the only time defending freedom of speech means anything is when defending people you disagree with or often hate.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Fidel CashFlow on June 17, 2011, 04:50:33 pm
The only problem I have with the preaching of hatred is that it generally leads to much worse things. Sure, at first it starts with name calling, jokes and slurs but eventually that kind of discussion leads to the degradation and dehumanization of that group. And once a group of people have become slightly dehumanized they may begin to be avoided, not hired for jobs, discriminated against, etc. Once a group is being regularly and sometimes even systematically discriminated against ("Colored fountains") violence against that group may become justified and in extreme cases genocide may become a possibility. Which, isn't as rare as one would expect.

Although WBC will pretty much never lead to this. Ever. Aside from the family and it's very small group of followers, the Westboro Baptist Church is ridiculed by pretty much everyone else.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Mort, the Lonely on June 22, 2011, 06:25:00 pm
They're going to fucking protest Ryan Dunn's funeral.

I have to question their IQ on this one. The entire Jackass crew will be there. The CKY crew will be there. And there's going to be a fuckton of Jackass and CKY fans there most likely.

Odds of Phelps getting the shit kicked out of him, or the WBC members there being humiliated or physically assaulted? I'd say 99.9%. Especially since Bam Margera seems to be close to completely losing it given the interview he gave on Fox today.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: That One Guy on June 22, 2011, 06:34:44 pm
They're going to fucking protest Ryan Dunn's funeral.

I have to question their IQ on this one. The entire Jackass crew will be there. The CKY crew will be there. And there's going to be a fuckton of Jackass and CKY fans there most likely.

Odds of Phelps getting the shit kicked out of him, or the WBC members there being humiliated or physically assaulted? I'd say 99.9%. Especially since Bam Margera seems to be close to completely losing it given the interview he gave on Fox today.


I know that Ryan did stupid things, but he was brave to do them, and if the Westboro is protesting bravery, they might as well control america and let us all get killed.
Title: Re: Westboro Baptist Church
Post by: Mort, the Lonely on June 24, 2011, 04:49:28 am
So Apparently the WBC shown some class and decided not to protest the private ceremony for Friends and Family.

They're instead going to protest the public one in a couple of days.

It's worth noting Ryan Dunn had a huge fanbase in the Hells Angels.

Odds of WBC members being murdered - 99.99999999999%