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[Wolsk]

Got the video I promised: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9zOlNCBYkU

[Sarah]

Funny you should bring this topic up. I read recently a debate in Nintendo Power about the definition of the term "cheat". It really boils down to what the glitch does. If the glitch makes the game harder, it's not cheating. If the glitch doesn't affect game play in any way, it's not cheating. If, however, the glitch makes anything simpler in any way, then I would say it is cheating.

My two cents.

[Kwiftee]

Whether or not it's cheating really comes down to what you were aiming to do with your run.

Were you going for the fastest possible time? Not cheating.
Were you going for the fastest possible time excluding 'debug' keys? Not cheating.
Were you going for the fastest possible time in the way you believe the creator of the game intended? Cheating, probably.

But it's your run. TAS runs aren't cheating, because they were never aiming to be taken as anything other than a TAS run. They're being judged on their own terms. Yours isn't a TAS run (I don't think ) but the same still applies. If your aim was to go as fast as possible without debug keys, then you achieved it without cheating.

[Arkhanno]

I see cheating falling into two categories: the use of 3rd party programs, or using an ingame code/toggle option that was made to make the game easier. Is glitching cheating? No, but I can see how people can consider it cheating. In a speed run glitches are perfectly fine.

[ybbald]

yeah 3rd party hacks or altering the coding is definitely cheating. If it is without those, it's up for debate

[Venser]

I would say whether it is cheating or not is entirely dependent on what you are doing. If trying to accomplish a legitimate run of the game? Of course it's cheating! If it's a speedrun, then fine, go ahead. Glitch-free speedruns of course they would be cheating in. So it depends on the intent, not really the content of the glitch or anything else. Third party programs are a different matter entirely, though, and are only not cheating if used in a TAS run or some other clearly advertised way.

[Valkema]

Hmm. The way I understand it. If your going for a legitimate, the way the game was meant to be played, run then by glitching you are cheating your own rules but not the rules of the game.

If your going for just a casual doesn't really care then glitching is just glitching

If your speed running then you either have the run with glitches or the run without glitches

I think a TAS is kinda up for debate but of course the name says Tool Assisted Speed Run so I guess instead of cheating its more of just the show off thing.

Then using 3rd party code/ in game cheat codes is cheating. However a TAS that uses the Cheat Codes in the Emulator is Cheating IMO

[playe]

Glitches being cheating is really more for personal preferences, and glitches being allowed in a speed-run is not always entirely true.

For example the select glitch in Metroid 2 is banned in by a lot of speed-run sites including SDA due to how much it can screw up your game, same with the save corruption glitch in Pokemon Yellow. (although these are allowed for TAS but only 'cause they're meant to show how broken the game is.)

Personally I don't find any glitch in games cheating, as it's entirely the developers and beta testers fault for not finding the glitches and removing them. (and actually I remember a thread quoting that Miyamoto himself said that glitches are like unintended features in the game.)

yeah 3rd party hacks or altering the coding is definitely cheating.

I believe what you're referring to is something like a Action Replay or Gameshark. in this case I agree with you 100%.

Also what do you mean by TAS that uses cheat codes in an emulator Anon? all a TAS is is a input file that someone made while playing the game frame-by-frame. If a TAS where to have been made using a game-genie code it wouldn't show in the final product. (unless the one recording the AVI turned on the code which I seriously doubt they would anyway.)

[ybbald]

Well if Miyamoto said it...

[Valkema]

Glitches being cheating is really more for personal preferences, and glitches being allowed in a speed-run is not always entirely true.

For example the select glitch in Metroid 2 is banned in by a lot of speed-run sites including SDA due to how much it can screw up your game, same with the save corruption glitch in Pokemon Yellow. (although these are allowed for TAS but only 'cause they're meant to show how broken the game is.)

Personally I don't find any glitch in games cheating, as it's entirely the developers and beta testers fault for not finding the glitches and removing them. (and actually I remember a thread quoting that Miyamoto himself said that glitches are like unintended features in the game.)

yeah 3rd party hacks or altering the coding is definitely cheating.

I believe what you're referring to is something like a Action Replay or Gameshark. in this case I agree with you 100%.

Also what do you mean by TAS that uses cheat codes in an emulator Anon? all a TAS is is a input file that someone made while playing the game frame-by-frame. If a TAS where to have been made using a game-genie code it wouldn't show in the final product. (unless the one recording the AVI turned on the code which I seriously doubt they would anyway.)

Yeah that is what I mean. If they used some game genie code in order to do the TAS. Which I doubt that would happen but it could.

[Storyyeller]

Yeah, a TAS should be something that is theoretically possible to accomplish in the game. If you're directly modifying game memory, that's just cheating, plain and simple.

[Mort, the Lonely]

Well, it depends.

On Metal Gear Solid, when I was 11, some of those boss fights were hard as nails (and bear in mind this was before they added a fucking first person option for most guns). Vulcan Raven was a pain in the arse as a result.

Anyway, after his health had been whittled down to a degree, he'd start shooting containers down to block paths. He did this to one of the paths he was running down, blocking his own route, and he just kept running into these containers. I whipped out the stinger missile and went to work.

I did redeem myself by beating him fairly on Twin Snakes though.

[Sodra]

If the glitch gives you more of a chance to beat the enemy, the level, or any other part of the game, it is cheating.

Simple enough.

[playe]

If the glitch gives you more of a chance to beat the enemy, the level, or any other part of the game, it is cheating.

Simple enough.

So... the Superslide to keep the Master Sword at the Ganon fight is cheating? (here is a video of what I mean http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awzeIw-MymM)

Also what about the Power Crouch Stab to 1 cycle Gohma? (btw to do this just enter the room by jump-slashing with a deku stick, stun gohma and crouch stab her 3 times.) is that cheating?

[Sodra]

If the glitch gives you more of a chance to beat the enemy, the level, or any other part of the game, it is cheating.

Simple enough.

So... the Superslide to keep the Master Sword at the Ganon fight is cheating? (here is a video of what I mean http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awzeIw-MymM)

Also what about the Power Crouch Stab to 1 cycle Gohma? (btw to do this just enter the room by jump-slashing with a deku stick, stun gohma and crouch stab her 3 times.) is that cheating?

Does it give you a better chance to beat the enemy?
If it does: it is cheating.