I Wanna Be The Forums!

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Gaiden 1.2 patch released. Click here to download!

Pages: [1] 2 3

Author Topic: I love Game Design  (Read 13292 times)

Kayin

  • Well.. They're more like giant cherries...
  • Administrator
  • The Guy
  • *****
  • Posts: 1259
    • View Profile
I love Game Design
« on: December 12, 2007, 05:19:04 am »

So feel free to discuss it here! Or my apparent lack there of it! Or something! I like intelligent discussions!
Logged

finale

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 242
  • Mind over matter. Personified.
    • View Profile
    • my work number
Re: I love Game Design
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2007, 05:54:25 am »

I, too, love game design. My notebooks from school were filled with detailed plans for games that I could never create, thanks to a crippling inability to program.

Kayin

  • Well.. They're more like giant cherries...
  • Administrator
  • The Guy
  • *****
  • Posts: 1259
    • View Profile
Re: I love Game Design
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2007, 06:01:31 am »

SHARE THEM.
Logged

Squidget

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
Re: I love Game Design
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2007, 06:10:51 am »

From a game design standpoint, the thing that really stood out for me in IWBTG was the way each difficult segment had a trap at the end that was easy to avoid once you knew it was there.  This would almost always get the player killed after completing a room for the first time, but they could easily avoid it on subsequent attempts. 

As a result, the player not only had to pass the segments, but had to be good enough to beat them more than once.  This really added to the sense of accomplishment for beating a room, since instead of just lucking through a single time, you had to learn it and get to the point where you could do it repeatedly.  The relative ease with which I get through the previously impossible rooms on a second playthrough continues to suprise me, and it's all down to that feature forcing me to grind each room until I'd mastered it.

Not the sort of thing you could put in a mainstream game, but for IWBTG, it works.
Logged

Kyper

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 47
  • Forum lurker
    • View Profile
Re: I love Game Design
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2007, 12:21:11 pm »

I think the labyrinth part was designed pretty well. Not only were there apparent dead-ends but you had to work a little to reach those dead-ends. Not to mention that a labyrinth/maze really fits in with the whole trial and error portion of the game. I mean, what better way to push this home by adding in an element that already requires testing the water a little? I don't think there's any part of IWBTG that feels out of place or exceedingly difficult, and as a parody/spoof game (at least, that's what I'm thinking due to all the intentional references/content rips from other games) it works wonders.

About my own efforts in game design, I'm pretty horrible. I remember using QBasic to code some lame RPGs (gasp). I don't think I was concerned with making a game with Excellent® game design, but rather a game that was actually completed and defect-free. It was no surprise to me that using Dragon Warrior and Shining Force game mechanics would more or less yield a game with similar results. I'm not saying I didn't care that the game lacked any thought put into it but my concern was more weighted toward getting a map editor to work or a Sleep spell to function properly. Heh, too bad I'm terrible at doing both design and development.

Even though designing an RPG in nearly any form requires a huge undertaking I don't think I could design small mini-games. For example, there was this surprising simple yet fun game demoed at a small gathering event I attended. There was a circle in the center, and you controlled a blue and green color arc of that circle with two analog joysticks. During the course of the game, blue and green colored balls closed in on the circle. All you had to do was move the arcs so that the green arcs 'caught' the green balls and the blue arc, blue ones. And all of this was set to a piece of music a la rhythm games (I think the balls were appearing to the notes and/or beats, can't remember). I'm sure you can easily think of the cool patterns to be produced or even additional features that could be implemented.

And the nitty-gritty details of a game can easily overwhelm me too. Perhaps you've heard of Challenge Promode Arena, a Quake 3 mod that aims to add more skill-based factors and remove the luck-based ones for competitive play? They have to discuss things like the spawn system, movement, subtle-looking weapon damage and knockback changes, item spawn times, etc. I can only imagine what goes in to make a fully working and hopefully unbroken fighting game system.

Long story short: can't design, can't code, can't play (well). I sure as hell do the best I can though.
Logged

Lamentful MiSS

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
  • I'm a girl thank you very much
    • View Profile
Re: I love Game Design
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2007, 01:40:57 pm »

I can design (sorta D:) but I can't code to save my life.  Therefore I just play games instead of make them.
Logged
im in ur boardz disruptin ur peece D:!!
I love me some glow.
Once JENoVA

Saiai

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 130
  • Watch out for traps!
    • View Profile
Re: I love Game Design
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2007, 02:39:10 pm »

When I think about it, Knytt and IWBTG have similar styles... sorta. By that I mean It's a tiny, tiiiny character running around a large environment. Naturally they're complete opposites in most other ways. n.n;
On another note, you should probably tell people to play games like that to calm down after playing IWBTG. >_>;
Logged

Bezerker

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
    • View Profile
Re: I love Game Design
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2007, 02:58:55 pm »

Game design is awesome. I've been thinking of something to create in XNA, something great. Maybe an IWBTG style game but with really high end graphics...if possible.

BTW: With MMF2, is there a particular language you have to learn to code on it?
Logged

Kayin

  • Well.. They're more like giant cherries...
  • Administrator
  • The Guy
  • *****
  • Posts: 1259
    • View Profile
Re: I love Game Design
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2007, 03:39:42 pm »

No, it's a visual sort of grid thing. In the end it works like a simple language only visual. Also MMF2 sucks. Not to stop you, but keep it in mind. I plan to learn flash soon. Anyways! Some good stuff worth discussing!

Squidget:
Well, thats partially true, but as the game goes on, the amount of kill traps decreases and the ones that do exist become easier as the platforming becomes more difficult. None of the first areas are particularly hard, but surprise most people. This mostly sets up for the rest of the game. Now you're going to be on your toes, sometimes even on screens that are perfectly fair.

The whole idea is to make the player paranoid while still managing to surprise him when he's at his most alert.

I consider the game sort of a puzzle game outside of just platforming. While there are few real puzzles. the act of figuring out how to get past many screens and bosses works the same way.


Kyper: Hah, RPGs seem to be a bit of the would-be game makers trap. They're probably the hardest games to make and require the most planning (as opposed to a make-as-you-go platformer) to keep a coherent plot. I'm actually hoping to make a metroidvania game eventually (That would look much better than IWBTG. :P Yes, I can do graphics) and it scares the hell outta me.

I actually think it's harder to get perfect balance in quake than it is to get acceptable balance in fighting games. Perfectally balancing quake requires a balancing of all options into a perfect unity, while balancing a fighting accepts, readily, a sort of 'imbalance', where as one character will have a particular tool better than any other, but then has to face it again someone elses best particular tools.  Things can get broken of course, but after some play, a patch or revision will know what needs to be done. Besides, it's not required that all characters be good, just not that any one character dominates the game.

Of course thats not to say it's easy either.

Saiai: Thats sort of true. Everyone talks about Knytts living enviroments, the only difference is his goal is to invoke atmosphere. Ironically this keeps his games rather low in any game play (Not that he can't do gameplay when he wants to. Within a Deep Forest is awesome). Try and keep make it so the gameplay and obstacles are very.. Well.. Outside of what you see. A row of spikes can be a row of spikes, but it can also have a few possible surprises.


Also. I find the natural adversion to death to be amusing. Saves in IWBTG are generally pretty generous, especially on Wuss. I don't think the problem people have is that they have to replay the same 10-20 seconds again as it is the insult of death. Well. That and a bit of the repetition, but I think if the mechanics of death where somehow obscured, people would be more tolerant of it.
Logged

Bezerker

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
    • View Profile
Re: I love Game Design
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2007, 04:03:23 pm »

No, it's a visual sort of grid thing. In the end it works like a simple language only visual. Also MMF2 sucks. Not to stop you, but keep it in mind. I plan to learn flash soon. Anyways! Some good stuff worth discussing!

Such a great design medium, even if it is a total CPU hog. Them vectors really stress out the CPU.

Yeah I heard a lot about all the problems in MMF2, so I might steer clear from that.
Logged

Kayin

  • Well.. They're more like giant cherries...
  • Administrator
  • The Guy
  • *****
  • Posts: 1259
    • View Profile
Re: I love Game Design
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2007, 04:09:38 pm »

Only I'm a huge fag and will be making raster Flash games. Ho ho, what a loser I am~ :D
Logged

Bezerker

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
    • View Profile
Re: I love Game Design
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2007, 04:38:53 pm »

 :spikes: RASTERBATION! :spikes:

EDIT: Let me show you my pixels.
Logged

GC

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Nintendo Hard supporter
    • View Profile
    • GC's deviantART account.
Re: I love Game Design
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2007, 06:17:15 pm »

I am an aspiring game programmer.  I made an excuse to people I knew that I would be taking computer programming so that I would get a good job in the field of computer security (although that's still not a bad idea), when in fact my real intentions was to finally learn how to program games in goddamned C++.  Of course, I'm guessing C++ won't come until 3 years later, as I started out on Python in the first year.

Nevertheless, I wanted to program my own game so bad that I have 2GB of hard drive space dedicated to documentation and examples/tutorials on programming games.  I had my first taste of programming my own game with Klik&Play (Multimedia Fusion users should know that one), and over time I found it to be rather inadequate for what I needed to create a really good game, so I'm looking forward to C++ for my needs.  In the meantime, I'm scouring the internets for random freeware game making programs to see which one would be suitable for a small project to test my abilities.

I plan on making another metroidvania, except with some elements along the line of Grand Theft Auto and Fallout (freedom to go anywhere and do all the shit you want without the game's programming from prohibiting you from doing most of that stuff) and perhaps some from those SMB hacks (hard games that require incredible amounts of skill to pull off), albeit toned down.
Cave Story clone?  Only time will tell.

I can probably code a good game given a rather neat game making program; I just can't do sprite art for squat.  I mean LOOK AT THIS CRAP.
Also, I can't draw well either.  Blargag.

Oh, and I make an effort to play lots of games just so that I can get some inspiration from them and figure out which games are good and what makes them good.


« Last Edit: December 12, 2007, 06:39:29 pm by GC »
Logged

Kayin

  • Well.. They're more like giant cherries...
  • Administrator
  • The Guy
  • *****
  • Posts: 1259
    • View Profile
Re: I love Game Design
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2007, 09:03:50 pm »

C++ is getting a bit old, I'd suggest taking a look at some of the other languages. C# is apparently good for game making and is like Java, which is a pretty nice language to begin with.

Anyways guess I should post some stuff in.

http://kayin.pyoko.org/sprites.html I can sprite

http://kayin.pyoko.org/ and sort of draw. :D
Logged

Squidget

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
Re: I love Game Design
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2007, 09:57:54 pm »

I like that first sprite Kayin linked. I think the large walking version could use a third frame though.  It seems to jerk too much between the two positions.  It's not noticeable with the smaller sprite, but with the large one it's more of a problem.  Also, I assume the jiggling breasts were intentional? ;)

I always had a problem making any decent-looking sprites, beyond basic gradients and background designs.  It's the biggest reason I've never taken on any really ambitious game-design projects, outside of modding toolsets like Neverwinter Nights.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3