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Author Topic: YoSniper's Fangame Contest 2014 *RESULTS*  (Read 72620 times)

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Re: YoSniper's Fangame Contest *IT'S ON!!!*
« Reply #90 on: March 02, 2014, 12:13:57 pm »

In my opinion, doki doki panic should be allowed since it was originally made as a prototype for it's own game but then made into Mario 2.

But at the same time, it's gonna be hard to reference DDP without referencing mario 2
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Nat

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Re: YoSniper's Fangame Contest *IT'S ON!!!*
« Reply #91 on: March 02, 2014, 01:35:48 pm »

Also where can the judges find the games that have been submitted to the contest?  ( oops didn't read the tread first sorry :P )
Thank You!
Check your messages.
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YoSniper

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Re: YoSniper's Fangame Contest *IT'S ON!!!*
« Reply #92 on: March 04, 2014, 05:20:30 pm »

I'd like to request a sticky just so people don't forget about this before the deadline of June 1st.

At least for the meantime.
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renhoex

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Re: YoSniper's Fangame Contest *IT'S ON!!!*
« Reply #93 on: March 05, 2014, 10:07:17 am »

Well if anyone cares about what I'm making I'll occasionally be posting a collection of screen captures I take everyday on a Blog I started for my fangames.
http://renhoex.tumblr.com/
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Fangame_Critic

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Re: YoSniper's Fangame Contest *IT'S ON!!!*
« Reply #94 on: March 08, 2014, 11:25:42 pm »

Hello everyone,

I first and foremost want to say that I think it is very generous of you to host a fangame contest that includes a $100 dollar prize. You have given some of these game makers something to look forward to. This is why I almost feel bad listing my concerns over this contest. Please note, before you read, that these are listed to try to improve the quality of your contest, not undermine it.

1.) The judges. Really? Give me one good, well-respected fangame any of these judges have made. This may be a direct shot at the judges themselves, but I just don't see anyone on that panel being "qualified" to judge a fangame. Sure, a few people that are unknown or moderately experienced is fine, but the entire panel? Please.

2.) The rules. I understand that you want to make your contest unique and interesting in its own regard, but no jump refreshers, no laser-like switches, and no bullet hell? The no Mario and no copying other rooms is fine, albeit odd for the only-no-Mario. But let's back up a second. No jump refreshers like THE ONES IN BOSHY? There are hundreds of fangames that utilize jump refreshers, and Boshy is one of many. In fact, some fangames utilize those jump refreshers way better than Boshy does, but you use Boshy as the example? I sincerely hope this was more of just a "random comparison" than anything else. Now onto the actual concern - NO JUMP REFRESHERS? I really don't see a justification for this, nor do I see any reason to limit one's creative ability to incorporate this mechanic into a fangame. If they use the jump refresh mechanic poorly, then their game will suck. Simple as that. No laser-like switches? I'm assuming this applies to every type of switch, and I really hope this isn't true. There are a lot of interesting and unique ways to incorporate switches into a fangame, but this (yet again) puts a major limit on one's creativity. No bullet hell - I can almost see a justification for this one, but one or two bullet hell-like mechanics in the game really can freshen the game up, or give it a distinct uniqueness. I believe a lot of these restrictions are poor decisions, but like I said, this is your contest - you do what you want!

3.) Entertainment - I actually think some of these are funny. No complains there, although that SFX sucks.

The biggest concern is the testers - you might not be able to turn back now, but I don't think the judging is going to be as successful as you like it. I give you major respect for holding a contest like this, and you can take this criticism how you like it, but please give these some thought. Do not take it as an attack - unless you're a judge, lol.

I wish every game maker good luck with this contest. I really hope most of these fangames are somewhat decent, although I'm not sure how much you can do with the current ruleset. I know a few of these fangame makers will definitely produce playable content - Seph, Trigger, Cheese, Lemon, Kyir, and Klazen.

Good luck,
-The Fangame Critic
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YoSniper

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Re: YoSniper's Fangame Contest *IT'S ON!!!*
« Reply #95 on: March 08, 2014, 11:58:06 pm »

Hello Fangame Critic, and welcome to the forum.

I would like to address your concerns for the contest. I take no offense to your points, and I wish to offer my own counterpoints.

1. The judges. The way I see it, a judge need only be able to give an opinion about a game in order to qualify. My goal here was to get a decent number of judges with varying opinions -- from those who prefer the more needle-type games riddled with spikes, to those like myself who are looking for more new gimmicks and don't enjoy the "cliches" so much. I have never developed a First Person platformer of any sort myself, but I still give my opinion on Portal. Does that make my opinion any less valid? I say no.

2. The rules Basically, I implemented these rules so that I would have much less of a chance of playing the same game with a bunch of re-skins several times over, which is what playing the vast majority of fangames feels like lately. Just take a look at infern0man's thread of "crappy spike" fangames. These are the kinds of games I want developers to get away from. I want people to expand their minds, implement new gimmicks, and not rely so much on the gimmicks of older fangames. The double-jump restore from Boshy in my view has become cliche, and nobody seems to do much with it other than create more intricate jumps than normal. For example, Purdy Adventures.

All of the rules I put in my contest (at least the "serious" rules) are a result of some gimmick I have seen in many fangames on this forum and others that feel overplayed, and that I don't particularly enjoy. This is meant to force developers to think outside the box and come up with new gimmicks. If developers are creative, this shouldn't be a problem.

3. Testers Given that developers have three whole months to make their games, I expect that they will not only test their games themselves, but have other people test the games for them as well. The judges on my panel are not the only people who will play the game, and I encourage people to get as much feedback as they can throughout the course of their projects, regardless of whether they are partaking in the contest or not, and even after the contest ends.

Besides, MetaKK is a great example of an experienced game tester, and I'm sure he'll be able to come up with many things for developers to fix.


To sum up, my goal is not to limit, but to encourage innovation, and I figured a $100 prize was enough of a motivator to kickstart that. Depending on how this contest goes, I may host more contests like this in the future. But hey, if you feel that you want to see games that meet different criteria, feel free to host your own contest down the road, or create your own engine, or your own tutorials. I'm not one to tell you what a good fangame is; I can only express my opinion.

Thanks for understanding.

- YoSniper
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Fangame_Critic

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Re: YoSniper's Fangame Contest *IT'S ON!!!*
« Reply #96 on: March 09, 2014, 12:15:51 am »

Hello Fangame Critic, and welcome to the forum.

I would like to address your concerns for the contest. I take no offense to your points, and I wish to offer my own counterpoints.

1. The judges. The way I see it, a judge need only be able to give an opinion about a game in order to qualify. My goal here was to get a decent number of judges with varying opinions -- from those who prefer the more needle-type games riddled with spikes, to those like myself who are looking for more new gimmicks and don't enjoy the "cliches" so much. I have never developed a First Person platformer of any sort myself, but I still give my opinion on Portal. Does that make my opinion any less valid? I say no.

2. The rules Basically, I implemented these rules so that I would have much less of a chance of playing the same game with a bunch of re-skins several times over, which is what playing the vast majority of fangames feels like lately. Just take a look at infern0man's thread of "crappy spike" fangames. These are the kinds of games I want developers to get away from. I want people to expand their minds, implement new gimmicks, and not rely so much on the gimmicks of older fangames. The double-jump restore from Boshy in my view has become cliche, and nobody seems to do much with it other than create more intricate jumps than normal. For example, Purdy Adventures.

All of the rules I put in my contest (at least the "serious" rules) are a result of some gimmick I have seen in many fangames on this forum and others that feel overplayed, and that I don't particularly enjoy. This is meant to force developers to think outside the box and come up with new gimmicks. If developers are creative, this shouldn't be a problem.

3. Testers Given that developers have three whole months to make their games, I expect that they will not only test their games themselves, but have other people test the games for them as well. The judges on my panel are not the only people who will play the game, and I encourage people to get as much feedback as they can throughout the course of their projects, regardless of whether they are partaking in the contest or not, and even after the contest ends.

Besides, MetaKK is a great example of an experienced game tester, and I'm sure he'll be able to come up with many things for developers to fix.


To sum up, my goal is not to limit, but to encourage innovation, and I figured a $100 prize was enough of a motivator to kickstart that. Depending on how this contest goes, I may host more contests like this in the future. But hey, if you feel that you want to see games that meet different criteria, feel free to host your own contest down the road, or create your own engine, or your own tutorials. I'm not one to tell you what a good fangame is; I can only express my opinion.

Thanks for understanding.

- YoSniper

Hi Yosniper, I'm glad you read the post. Allow me to respond to some of your rebuttals:

1.) The difference between giving an opinion and being a judge is, well one opinion matters and one doesn't. If you're a judge, I hope that you have at least decent knowledge, if not extensive knowledge in what you are judging. If you are anyone else, go ahead! Give your opinion! But it's the judge's the matters - they are completely separate things. But I understand where you are coming from, and respect that.

2.) I don't believe that jump refreshers are an overused mechanic. Yes, I think they are sometimes used poorly, however, there are some extremely creative ways to implement this into a game. I completely understand that you want to encourage creativity, but I fear you're harming it. I really do. I can only hope this is wrong, and there are new unique mechanics that evolve from this contest!

3.) I think you may have misread what I typed, or maybe I put it in a fashion that wasn't clear. Regardless, by "testers" I meant judges, which reiterates my first point. I can only hope the makers will test their own game, for their own good. But this was a non-issue.

I wish you the best of luck with your contest, I look forward to seeing the products!

Now, onto a less respectable post...

Nothing you've said there strikes me as helpful; in fact most of it comes across completely as undermining both Yosniper and his contest.

1) The judges. I'm sorry, I forgot that in order to judge the quality of something you have to have made something of equal or better quality. All those music reviewers and art critics in the newspapers are certainly prize winners in their respective fields.... right? Honestly, I don't think you understand what it means to be a good critic. Fangames are made for the public to play, for any one to play. Their demographic is not 'fangame makers', it's 'fangame players'. So therefore, why should the panel only (or mostly) be open to people who create them? You don't need to be a fangame maker to play fangames, and neither do you to judge them or their quality. As a consumer, I say their opinion is as valid or 'qualified' as anyone else's. You can have a perfectly respectable view on something regardless of your skill in creating that thing. Insulting the entire panel by calling them unknown or of 'moderate experience' (somehow suggesting that moderate = bad going by the second line of the judges section) isn't helping at all, it's not just undermining Yosnipers judgement, it's undermining the collective fanbase who have come together to support him in this project.

2) The rules. Boshy is one of the most well known fangames and one that it is likely everyone has heard of, it was clearly for comparison. I don't see how attacking Yosniper over the comparison in any way helps to better the contest. Really, it's just a pointless slam.

Yosniper isn't limiting people' creativity, he's encouraging it. Things like jump refreshers and on/off laser switches have become crutches for many aspiring fangame designing to just plug into their game instead of trying to devise new, more unique gimmicks. While they do have decent uses and I agree, there are probably unique ways in which they could still be used, all that's happening here is Yosniper is forcing people to be more creative in their use of gimmicks and I don't see a thing wrong with it.

The type switch he is referring to is the one that alternates a stationary beam of electricity on and off. That by no means discounts any other type of laser beam.

Again the bullet hell bosses that have been shown are just the static sprites that sit in a room while the player avoids cherries. As far as my understanding goes, this rule doesn't an bullet hell, it bans bosses like the one smentioned, that only use bullet hell and are other wise just avoiding segments, rather than actual programmed enemies. The statement "but one or two bullet hell-like mechanics in the game really can freshen the game up, or give it a distinct uniqueness" is entirely subjective as some people find that they give a game 'uniqueness' and others don't. I fail to see how you can present this as fact.

3) Enterainment. You had no complaints.

To reiterate, you don't need to have made a good fangame to be, as you put it, 'qualified' to judge one. Fangames are made for anyone to play and therefore anyone's opinion is valid. I know what I like to hear in music but I haven't the foggiest on how to actually write a composition that is skillful. Not having talent in a field does not mean you aren't capable of seeing talent in that field.

You come off as snarky and pretentious, with little respect for replying to others in a civilized manner. As such, you will receive a reply of equal value.

1.) Music reviewers? Art critics? I'm sorry, I don't think you quite understand English, and don't take that personally if it isn't your first language. A 'judge' is, by definition, a person able or qualified to give an opinion on something. A critic and a reviewer do not need to be qualified. Got a review for a new game that came out? Got some criticism for a new movie? Type away, blog away, do whatever you want! But when you're a judge, you better be well-versed in the subject. In this particular case, you do not need to be a game maker, but because makers are being grades on their games, it should be strongly encouraged. Please do not generalize the entire 'fangame community' as being undermined by my post. You completely blew it out of proportion to try to justify your case. I only wanted to voice honest concerns, but you seem to attack quite fast. Regardless - a judge better be well-versed, unlike a critic or reviewer. Need an example? Try any TV show with judges - they ALWAYS use judges that have some in-depth knowledge of the area, whatever it may be.

2.) I understand full well what he meant through the laser switches. This wasn't as big of a concern as the jump refreshers. You state that he is trying to encourage creativity, which is correct. His goal is to not restrict creativity, obviously. But when you limit certain aspects of a fangame that can be used extremely well by a seasoned game maker, this may unintentionally limit their game in the process. This is what I fear, and I can only hope that this is unbased and wrong. I fail to see how you thought I really believed YoSniper was trying to punish game makers through his rules.

Overall, yes. If you are a judge, you better be well-versed. Re-read #1 if you're confused. In addition, please re-read your posts before hitting that 'post' button - I believe you may have tried to justify an idea that went completely sour. But, as stated, you gave me a snarky reply - you'll receive the same.

I wish you the best of luck in this contest, if you are a part of it in any manner.
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renhoex

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Re: YoSniper's Fangame Contest *IT'S ON!!!*
« Reply #97 on: March 09, 2014, 06:44:59 am »

I gotta ask how is not including any Mario references giving Nintendo the finger?
Technically we're doing what they want us to do, not use Nintendo copyrighted games. If anything they're still giving us the finger.
And this seems like something that benefits you tubers more than us, And for that matter why just Mario isn't anything Nintendo related breaking their copyright law?

I'm not going to include a Mario reference in my game (at least not for this contest) but I've just been thinking long and hard on this rule you've made.
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YoSniper

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Re: YoSniper's Fangame Contest *IT'S ON!!!*
« Reply #98 on: March 09, 2014, 01:30:26 pm »

I gotta ask how is not including any Mario references giving Nintendo the finger?
Technically we're doing what they want us to do, not use Nintendo copyrighted games. If anything they're still giving us the finger.
And this seems like something that benefits you tubers more than us, And for that matter why just Mario isn't anything Nintendo related breaking their copyright law?

I'm not going to include a Mario reference in my game (at least not for this contest) but I've just been thinking long and hard on this rule you've made.
I suppose that I had a little residual angst when I said that. I was still annoyed that Nintendo was copyright claiming video game music from Mario, preventing me and others from monetizing videos.

However, I feel that the other reason behind that rule is still valid. Mario is one of the most frequently referenced games in IWBTG games (when references apply) and I want people to try harder. I mean, Mario is referenced not once, but TWICE in Boshy alone (for example.)

1.) The difference between giving an opinion and being a judge is, well one opinion matters and one doesn't. If you're a judge, I hope that you have at least decent knowledge, if not extensive knowledge in what you are judging. If you are anyone else, go ahead! Give your opinion! But it's the judge's the matters - they are completely separate things. But I understand where you are coming from, and respect that.

2.) I don't believe that jump refreshers are an overused mechanic. Yes, I think they are sometimes used poorly, however, there are some extremely creative ways to implement this into a game. I completely understand that you want to encourage creativity, but I fear you're harming it. I really do. I can only hope this is wrong, and there are new unique mechanics that evolve from this contest!

3.) I think you may have misread what I typed, or maybe I put it in a fashion that wasn't clear. Regardless, by "testers" I meant judges, which reiterates my first point. I can only hope the makers will test their own game, for their own good. But this was a non-issue.

I wish you the best of luck with your contest, I look forward to seeing the products!
1. Yes, that is the definition of a judge for the contest. What you may not be aware of is that after I announced the contest back in February, I left the door open for anyone to become a judge. The only limitation was that someone who was going to compete in the contest could not judge. Yes, I did invite several people to be judges, just so I could get a wider range of opinions, but I did not deny anyone the opportunity.

2. The double-jump restore mechanic might not be that much of a recurring theme NOW, but I feel that that is because it does not come readily with the engine, and many people are just too lazy to program such an object. Restoring the player's double-jump is not outright barred in this contest; just the mechanic of doing so with a collectible object. One could conceivably program triple-jump or infinite-jump if they so desired.

Best regards,

YoSniper
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Valkema

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Re: YoSniper's Fangame Contest *IT'S ON!!!*
« Reply #99 on: March 09, 2014, 04:36:41 pm »

Honestly any complaints about the rules are completely invalid. He's basically saying, I've got $100 and I'm going to give it to someone who can make a fangame with these requirements and does so better than everyone else who wants it. What you're saying is basically like saying a contest to create a game with the rule "It has to be a Turn Based RPG" sucks because it limits creativity. He doesn't really need a reason behind his rules, it's his goddamn money. The only thing bad rules do is turn people away from joining the contest and that doesn't seem to be an issue here.

Now onto the judges. Quite literally anyone can be a judge for a contest. ANYONE! Some contest runners like to have judges with more experience because that can affect their opinion of something but that doesn't change the fact that this is an Opinionated task. Opinions by definition are not wrong.
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Paragus

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Re: YoSniper's Fangame Contest *IT'S ON!!!*
« Reply #100 on: March 10, 2014, 10:18:40 am »

I have to agree with the sentiment on the judges.

As someone who plays and streams literally every new fangame to come out, I can't think of a single good game collectively that has been produced from anyone on the judging panel.  Without singling anyone out, some of these people have produced some of the biggest fangame turds I've encountered.  It's like having someone who writes for Hustler Magazine being appointed do critique master works of literature.   Don't get me wrong, it's your contest so you can do it any way you'd like, but with a panel of randomly selected people who have no grasp on how to create a quality game, I think it may be lacking in legitimacy.

Now the contestants on the other hand, I recognize many of them who happen to have previous fangames under their belt, some of which are among my favorite fangames I've ever played.   Maybe you should reconsider your stance on letting the contestants be judges and just say that nobody is allowed to vote for their own game?  I also don't think you should be placing artificial restriction on the makers, let them sink or swim through their own creativity or stupidity.
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Valkema

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Re: YoSniper's Fangame Contest *IT'S ON!!!*
« Reply #101 on: March 10, 2014, 10:37:43 am »

I have to agree with the sentiment on the judges.

As someone who plays and streams literally every new fangame to come out, I can't think of a single good game collectively that has been produced from anyone on the judging panel.  Without singling anyone out, some of these people have produced some of the biggest fangame turds I've encountered.  It's like having someone who writes for Hustler Magazine being appointed do critique master works of literature.   Don't get me wrong, it's your contest so you can do it any way you'd like, but with a panel of randomly selected people who have no grasp on how to create a quality game, I think it may be lacking in legitimacy.

Now the contestants on the other hand, I recognize many of them who happen to have previous fangames under their belt, some of which are among my favorite fangames I've ever played.   Maybe you should reconsider your stance on letting the contestants be judges and just say that nobody is allowed to vote for their own game?  I also don't think you should be placing artificial restriction on the makers, let them sink or swim through their own creativity or stupidity.

You don't have to make a good game to judge whether or not a game is good. That fucking argument got old 4 fucking years ago.
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ethinthenougathorn

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Re: YoSniper's Fangame Contest *IT'S ON!!!*
« Reply #102 on: March 10, 2014, 11:50:13 am »

I have to agree with the sentiment on the judges.

As someone who plays and streams literally every new fangame to come out, I can't think of a single good game collectively that has been produced from anyone on the judging panel.  Without singling anyone out, some of these people have produced some of the biggest fangame turds I've encountered.  It's like having someone who writes for Hustler Magazine being appointed do critique master works of literature.   Don't get me wrong, it's your contest so you can do it any way you'd like, but with a panel of randomly selected people who have no grasp on how to create a quality game, I think it may be lacking in legitimacy.

Now the contestants on the other hand, I recognize many of them who happen to have previous fangames under their belt, some of which are among my favorite fangames I've ever played.   Maybe you should reconsider your stance on letting the contestants be judges and just say that nobody is allowed to vote for their own game?  I also don't think you should be placing artificial restriction on the makers, let them sink or swim through their own creativity or stupidity.

i know that in the past i made some really shit games, but i never claimed them to be good and quite all of them were made in the first days after i got game maker. still, by that i could see how much work creating new sprites and physics is. also, i play but mostly watch iwannas for many years (before you made any stream or video) and i can assure you   that my taste for good fangames is not much different from any other`s taste.
im not saying that because i want to stay a judge at all cost but i just think rude to all the other judges to accuse them of having no clue about good fangames. im confident that all judges have a clue so the best game will win, and i`m glad about  YoSniper`s decision, since judging games will be a great experience.
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Fangame_Critic

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Re: YoSniper's Fangame Contest *IT'S ON!!!*
« Reply #103 on: March 10, 2014, 03:51:19 pm »

I have to agree with the sentiment on the judges.

As someone who plays and streams literally every new fangame to come out, I can't think of a single good game collectively that has been produced from anyone on the judging panel.  Without singling anyone out, some of these people have produced some of the biggest fangame turds I've encountered.  It's like having someone who writes for Hustler Magazine being appointed do critique master works of literature.   Don't get me wrong, it's your contest so you can do it any way you'd like, but with a panel of randomly selected people who have no grasp on how to create a quality game, I think it may be lacking in legitimacy.

Now the contestants on the other hand, I recognize many of them who happen to have previous fangames under their belt, some of which are among my favorite fangames I've ever played.   Maybe you should reconsider your stance on letting the contestants be judges and just say that nobody is allowed to vote for their own game?  I also don't think you should be placing artificial restriction on the makers, let them sink or swim through their own creativity or stupidity.

You don't have to make a good game to judge whether or not a game is good. That fucking argument got old 4 fucking years ago.

Yes, because I really want someone who is either A.) Inexperienced at fangames or B.) Not produced any quality content to judge the quality of these fangames that are being made. Makes little to no sense, but YoSniper opened the judges' panel up to anyone, so this is the reason why certain judges (see: All of them) are not incredibly experienced or well-known when it comes to playing OR creating fangames. It's not just a matter of "make a good fangame, you can be a judge." I'm fairly certain that there's a few individuals that are very experienced that have not actually produced content (or rarely produce content) that have good enough taste in fangames to really judge fairly.

All in all, it's great that he's hosting the contest and everyone is getting a chance to make some fangames - it really livens up the community. But the way in which these judges were picked is poor, that's that. Everyone is jumping on the tiny bits of this argument that don't really make much sense, only arguing the tiny bit of "you don't NEED to make a fangame to be a judge." Its clear that judges need should have in-depth knowledge and experience.
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YoSniper

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Re: YoSniper's Fangame Contest *IT'S ON!!!*
« Reply #104 on: March 10, 2014, 04:26:42 pm »

Well, the end argument is that it's my contest and I'll have judge anyone whom I want.

But to address any concerns, judges will have to justify their picks for 1st - 5th place with reasoning, which I don't see anyone having an issue with. For example, I won't accept someone's vote for a certain character merely because that person is their friend. I expect all of my judges to list pros and cons for each game based on their own opinions.

If I were to only allow "experienced" fangame players to be judges, that would induce much more bias as opposed to letting anyone who pleases to judge. What if someone who has never played a fangame decides to watch this? Would they agree whole-heartedly with someone who has been playing these fangames for 5 years or more?

Again, you're free to disagree however you want, but it's not going to change my mind about this being a fair set-up.
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