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[simonkex]

Hi guys, I just actually found out about this GREAT game!

I love it!

I've just got one question.

What did you use to make this game?
Some grafic engine? What code did you write in?
(Or did you use something lame like gamemaker?)

[Kitty]

Kayin used MMF2. Which I believe is Multimedia Fusion 2.

[simonkex]

So it's kinda like no programming nor engine use?
It's a really cool game, but I kinda like lose some
respect for it if it's not really made by him, but by
him putting stuff togheter in a lame program.

Like, "the program made the game", you just put the
pussle togheter.

[AndrewFM]

No, you're incorrect about both MMF2 and Game Maker. Neither 'make the game for you', and they both require extensive programming.

[simonkex]

Okay, but it still feels like you put parts toghether. I mean,
the most functions are somewhat build in the program. You
don't use raw coding to make the game.

If you make a game, you should make it from the top to the
bottom. Using programs for help sure works, but the thing is
that it's not the same work and skill and therefore I lost some
respect finding that out :(

[AndrewFM]

Well, I mean, it's a little less raw than making it in a standard IDE, but it's not enough that I'd consider it much less skill. The only thing you really are helped out on is the level design and the resource management (IE: instead of having to create the maps by defining the coordinates of everything in a large 2-dimensional array, etc).

I haven't used MMF2, but I think the coding language used there is C# (?). As for Game Maker, it uses an unofficial custom language, that is much like a combination of Python, C++, and Java, with a built-in library of predefined methods.

I do agree that it's not quite as hard as making a program from rawer coding, but don't make it seem like it makes it easy, and assists you all along the way. It still requires a hell of a lot of programming skill, and a lot of work.

[Neo]

Isn't it also a ROM hack of Battletoads 2? And then imported somehow into MMF2?

And I dont know about you, but making a game in any program is still a lot of work and impressive. Also, coding it all from scratch with no WYSIWYG aid would probably look horrible unless you were an expert programmer.

[AndrewFM]

I thought he was joking about the Battletoads ROM... Was that really true?

[Neo]

I have no idea I've never played Battletoads and I've only seen it in the FAQ. I figured if it was true he did most of it in the ROM hacking, and then somehow put that through MMF2 to make different sprites, music and stuff.

Kayin could ya clear this up lol?

[Shazarava]

So it's kinda like no programming nor engine use?
It's a really cool game, but I kinda like lose some
respect for it if it's not really made by him, but by
him putting stuff togheter in a lame program.

Like, "the program made the game", you just put the
pussle togheter.

The program didn't put together the levels and stuff, the program didn't do crap besides make things easier for kayin. if you lose respect for someone because they didn't use those incredibly hard to learn programming languages, then you're pretty dumb.Hell, anyone can get an easy program, but it makes a genius to put together a good game.

Oh anmd to answer your question, it's multimedia fusion 2, pretty easy programming and doesn't require much coding.

[Neo]

Oh anmd to answer your question, it's multimedia fusion 2, pretty easy programming and doesn't require much coding.
[/quote]

So it's like Flash and actionscript?

[Shazarava]

Oh anmd to answer your question, it's multimedia fusion 2, pretty easy programming and doesn't require much coding.

So it's like Flash and actionscript?
[/quote]

Like retarded flash lol.It pre codes stuff, so you don't have to code all of the game.

[dsk]

Oh anmd to answer your question, it's multimedia fusion 2, pretty easy programming and doesn't require much coding.

So it's like Flash and actionscript?

Like retarded flash lol.It pre codes stuff, so you don't have to code all of the game.
[/quote]

I suggest that you raise your flame shields now

[Kayin]

Okay, lets clear somethings up.

It's done in MMF2. MMF2 handles all of the low level stuff and supplies all the low level stuff and leaves me with a map editor, an animation editor and some basic objects and options. It supplies some pre-existing ways to handle many types of movement. It is not a true scripting language like in Game Maker or Action Script, as it's a visual grid.. thing.

It works in practice like one, just crummier because I can't edit stuff as fluidly as I can in a text editor.

Thing is, I'm not a programmer. I'm a game designer. While I understand some very basic stuff, I could not write from scratch -- I couldn't come close. Designers and programmers are not often the same people these days and, given the resources I would have someone else do the programming (Infact, Project Etta is being coded by a friend in C++ and SDL).

That said, if I did code it, I could, like many people of made use of many pre existing libraries and funcitons to do  what I wanted. That would not qualify for what you consider a respectable amount of programming, but is completely transparent.

Also:

Okay, but it still feels like you put parts toghether. I mean,
the most functions are somewhat build in the program. You
don't use raw coding to make the game.

This, I find to be a very misleading statement as it places the value of the game on it's programming and not the infinitely more important aspects of the game -- the game it's self, how it plays and the design that went into it. I will say, a decent amount of work went into the coding of the game. It uses a bunch of custom movement systems and has tons of scripted objects that were not automated for me. That said, no. It does not compare to programming from scratch though.

That said, I'm not trying to gain any sort of respect for programming, nor do I care. I'm more focused on actually releasing an enjoyable (or torturous) game. That said, if your value system stressed the programming aspect most, I'm not going to stop you from thinking less of me. Nor will I mind or think less of you.

I do what I do, and if people's values appreciate it, thats good. If someone's doesn't, thats fine too, as I cannot please everyone.

[dsk]

Good words. I'll redirect everyone who asks about it to this post