I Wanna Be The Forums!

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Gaiden 1.2 patch released. Click here to download!

Poll

4-player local capability?

Yes
No

Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6

Author Topic: Detonation Zone V2  (Read 22956 times)

YoSniper

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 706
  • Code blooded. Check it and see.
    • View Profile
    • My YouTube channel
Re: Detonation Zone V2 *ALPHA 3, WITH LEVEL EDITOR*
« Reply #45 on: February 27, 2013, 10:20:12 pm »

Well, it's taken a long time, but I've finally completed the LEVEL EDITOR! I welcome you all to create your own levels and submit them. They may end up in the main game!

See original post for details.
Logged
I don't traverse the forums as much anymore. Follow me on Twitter if you want to keep tabs on me!

Twitter: @YoSniperGames
Twitch: yosniper

Streams happen whenever I feel like it.

MetaKK

  • PRO-Tier
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
    • View Profile
    • My Youtube Channel
Re: Detonation Zone V2 *ALPHA 3, WITH LEVEL EDITOR*
« Reply #46 on: March 02, 2013, 04:46:25 am »

You might wanna make the player invincible during the building of the level. The coordinates of every former object placed are saved, so when you try to place the Player, he dies and completly screws up the editor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g29xI8lGkKU

EDIT: Also, trying to save a Level twice freezes the window and the only way to quit it is to Alt+F4 out.
Saving the level once like you're supposed to, rewrites the userlevels.txt wrong, so you get an error trying to load it.


___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 1
of  Step Event
for object world:

Error in code at line 27:
                                   userLevelName[numUserLevels] = b;
                                                 ^
at position 48: Array index >= 32000


Same thing when you try to load a previously made level in the editor.


___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 1
of  Step Event
for object world:

Error in code at line 362:
                                       userLevelName[numUserLevels] = b;
                                                     ^
at position 52: Array index >= 32000


If ignored it seems to work just fine though.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=63zgAFssjig



« Last Edit: March 03, 2013, 10:45:49 am by MetaKK »
Logged

YoSniper

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 706
  • Code blooded. Check it and see.
    • View Profile
    • My YouTube channel
Re: Detonation Zone V2 *ALPHA 4, WITH LEVEL EDITOR*
« Reply #47 on: March 03, 2013, 01:47:07 pm »

Thank you very much for the bug report. I will look into each of these errors and update the game soon.

EDIT: Alpha 4 now available. All of these bugs should be corrected now.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 05:59:19 pm by YoSniper »
Logged
I don't traverse the forums as much anymore. Follow me on Twitter if you want to keep tabs on me!

Twitter: @YoSniperGames
Twitch: yosniper

Streams happen whenever I feel like it.

MetaKK

  • PRO-Tier
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
    • View Profile
    • My Youtube Channel
Re: Detonation Zone V2 *ALPHA 4, WITH LEVEL EDITOR*
« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2013, 10:07:21 pm »

Okay, I probably should've mentioned some of these errors earlier, but oh well.


1. The cursor in the "Delete Object" menu doesn't move at all, also DELETE itself doesn't light up if chosen.

2. Whenever you exit out of the Editor to level and then go back to it, the "Are you sure you want to exit" message is still up, nothing major, just a little annoying. (Maybe add a "Test Level" feature, so you don't have to leave the editor everytime you want to test if your chamber works?)

3. An "Edit Object" option would be nice, also if you create a big chunk of spikes for instance, you need to find the ONE spike you originally moved there to delete it again which can be tricky, it might help to highlight it a bit.

Actually, the entire Delete function feels a bit clunky, I'm having a hard time deleting almost everything except for blocks and single spikes because I don't know which spot to target.

4. Plasm clouds are somehow automatically always as big as the room as soon as you exit the editor, the option on "Radius" is always not available, so this is likely on purpose, still.

5. It would be helpful to have the camera following the object I'm currently placing in a similar fashion as it does when you move around the player. If that's not possible, at least have it change when rotating the chamber. Editing objects on the ceiling, let alone building a decent level structure on it, is nearly impossible right now.

6. Fans seem to completly ignore the Z coordinate unless it's on 8 in which case it does react by changing it's angle and moving to 8, but no change of Z can get it back from there.

7. Kickers don't work if their direction is set on CCW and it's placed on the right, or CW on the left. While this is obviously logical, it took me some time to figure out why that damn kicker wouldn't work and I almost posted here "Kickers don't work at all", so you might wanna indicate that in some way.

8. The "Power-up Chain" Doesn't work at all. You can't change anything besides the X coordinate and you can't even cancel out with X, so you have to F2 out, leaving all your progress lost.

9. Also, sometimes when I tried to test my level, it just faded out about 5 seconds in. Since nothing else seemed to fix that, I had to restart the game. I can't seem to reproduce that error though.

10. I don't really like the whole "highlight X ... move it, highlight Y ... move it, highlight X again, ... move it, highlight Z, ... move it"-thing, buttons mapped to move the objects right away would be nice, but I guess for an Alpha it works.


Aside from that, I haven't encountered any error messages. (If you don't count the ones i got from manually deleting my level files and editing the Userlevels.txt since there is no Delete level feature yet)
____________________________________________

Hope I'm not too nitpicky.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 09:00:50 am by MetaKK »
Logged

YoSniper

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 706
  • Code blooded. Check it and see.
    • View Profile
    • My YouTube channel
Re: Detonation Zone V2 *ALPHA 4, WITH LEVEL EDITOR*
« Reply #49 on: March 07, 2013, 06:02:59 pm »

Okay, I probably should've mentioned some of these errors earlier, but oh well.


1. The cursor in the "Delete Object" menu doesn't move at all, also DELETE itself doesn't light up if chosen.

2. Whenever you exit out of the Editor to level and then go back to it, the "Are you sure you want to exit" message is still up, nothing major, just a little annoying. (Maybe add a "Test Level" feature, so you don't have to leave the editor everytime you want to test if your chamber works?)

3. An "Edit Object" option would be nice, also if you create a big chunk of spikes for instance, you need to find the ONE spike you originally moved there to delete it again which can be tricky, it might help to highlight it a bit.

Actually, the entire Delete function feels a bit clunky, I'm having a hard time deleting almost everything except for blocks and single spikes because I don't know which spot to target.

4. Plasm clouds are somehow automatically always as big as the room as soon as you exit the editor, the option on "Radius" is always not available, so this is likely on purpose, still.

5. It would be helpful to have the camera following the object I'm currently placing in a similar fashion as it does when you move around the player. If that's not possible, at least have it change when rotating the chamber. Editing objects on the ceiling, let alone building a decent level structure on it, is nearly impossible right now.

6. Fans seem to completly ignore the Z coordinate unless it's on 8 in which case it does react by changing it's angle and moving to 8, but no change of Z can get it back from there.

7. Kickers don't work if their direction is set on CCW and it's placed on the right, or CW on the left. While this is obviously logical, it took me some time to figure out why that damn kicker wouldn't work and I almost posted here "Kickers don't work at all", so you might wanna indicate that in some way.

8. The "Power-up Chain" Doesn't work at all. You can't change anything besides the X coordinate and you can't even cancel out with X, so you have to F2 out, leaving all your progress lost.

9. Also, sometimes when I tried to test my level, it just faded out about 5 seconds in. Since nothing else seemed to fix that, I had to restart the game. I can't seem to reproduce that error though.

10. I don't really like the whole "highlight X ... move it, highlight Y ... move it, highlight X again, ... move it, highlight Z, ... move it"-thing, buttons mapped to move the objects right away would be nice, but I guess for an Alpha it works.


Aside from that, I haven't encountered any error messages. (If you don't count the ones i got from manually deleting my level files and editing the Userlevels.txt since there is no Delete level feature yet)
____________________________________________

Hope I'm not too nitpicky.

I will address each of these points as I am able to get to them. Regardless, I appreciate the feedback.
Bold = Need to implement

1) I have fixed the cursor and the highlighting for the Delete menu. You will see this in the next release, whenever it happens.

2) I have also made it so that when you exit the editor and come back, you will see the main editor menu and not the "Are you sure" prompt.

3) Yeah, placing the target over the right spot on the object is not really intuitive just yet. The origins on the objects are usually the front, top, leftmost corner of the object, unless the chamber is oriented at a different angle than when you start, or the object itself is oriented at a different angle. I'm thinking of putting a black or red dot on the origin point of each object so you can locate it with your cursor when trying to delete an object.

The Edit Object option is a good idea, and I will likely put that in at some point. However, selecting the object to edit will have to use the same process as when you're trying to delete an object.

4) Had a problem factor of 32 in there. Whoops. Should be fixed next release.

5) Yeah, I had a feeling having the P2 directional controls for the camera wouldn't work out in the long run. I'll try implementing this for the next version. Great idea!

6) Thanks for catching that. Added some code to tie the fan's z coordinate with that of the editor.

7) I have not idiot-proofed the editor, nor do I really intend to for the most part. Ensuring that reactors, kickers, flippers, fans and switches are always on surfaces and not floating in mid-air seems like an awful lot of work at the moment. If I do implement safeguards to prevent things like wrong-side kickers or floating triggers, it's not going to be for another couple of alphas.

8) Had a bit of an if-else mix-up there. Again, should be fixed in the next alpha.

9) That fade-out was also reported by my sprite-artist. It happens when you fail Killer Crystal due to the Crystal Bomb going off. I failed to reset certain variables, so the game would fade out of any chamber  thereafter until you restarted the game. I have already fixed that for the next release.

10) This system I want to keep right now because I want to adapt it to a controller kind of style. In the original Detonation Zone, the level editor was extremely complicated, where almost every key on the keyboard was mapped to a different function, such as selecting an object, rotating it, deleting it, and so on. While the current system is tedious, I want to keep it because on the off chance that this game actually gets ported somewhere, there will be no complications mapping buttons to functions.

Thanks again for the feedback! I'll see how soon I can get the next release out. Hopefully all of the bugs will be gone then and I can finally release a tutorial video on how to use the editor without cocking everything up.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 10:01:40 pm by YoSniper »
Logged
I don't traverse the forums as much anymore. Follow me on Twitter if you want to keep tabs on me!

Twitter: @YoSniperGames
Twitch: yosniper

Streams happen whenever I feel like it.

MetaKK

  • PRO-Tier
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
    • View Profile
    • My Youtube Channel
Re: Detonation Zone V2 *ALPHA 4, WITH LEVEL EDITOR*
« Reply #50 on: March 09, 2013, 01:39:24 pm »

7) I have not idiot-proofed the editor, nor do I really intend to for the most part.

Excuse me?


This one works,



This one doesn't, go figure.



Random objects floating in the air are obvious mistakes, but things not working because of one simple setting in the object options not so much.

10) This system I want to keep right now because I want to adapt it to a controller kind of style. In the original Detonation Zone, the level editor was extremely complicated, where almost every key on the keyboard was mapped to a different function, such as selecting an object, rotating it, deleting it, and so on. While the current system is tedious, I want to keep it because on the off chance that this game actually gets ported somewhere, there will be no complications mapping buttons to functions.
It would still be nice to have the option, but i guess this statement is final. Alright then.
_______________

Looking forward to public Alpha 5!
« Last Edit: March 10, 2013, 02:29:55 am by MetaKK »
Logged

YoSniper

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 706
  • Code blooded. Check it and see.
    • View Profile
    • My YouTube channel
Re: Detonation Zone V2 *ALPHA 4, WITH LEVEL EDITOR*
« Reply #51 on: March 10, 2013, 10:50:58 am »


Excuse me?


This one works,



This one doesn't, go figure.



Random objects floating in the air are obvious mistakes, but things not working because of one simple setting in the object options not so much.
Fair enough. This was brought up in Rawrzaur's stream as well. I do plan on adding additional visual aids such as arrows to indicate which face of a 2-dimensional object should be facing outward. For the reactor, this is obvious, but for objects like fans, kickers, flippers, and floor switches, it is not.

Somewhere down the line, once I have established enough of a stable foundation, I will work on "idiot-proofing" the editor so kickers cannot go wrong face in, objects aren't floating out in space, and players and crystals don't spawn inside of blocks or spikes. But that will be a way down the road.

It would still be nice to have the option, but i guess this statement is final. Alright then.
Well, just think about it. If you were using a controller instead of a keyboard, wouldn't the current setup make more sense?
But I'm also taking into account the fact that most objects in the game rely on more than just x, y, and z coordinates. Some need a relative angle to the chamber, others need speeds and delay times, and so on. I don't want to go back to having a different key mapped to each function because I did that in version 1, and it required a lengthy manual (and we all know how everyone loves to read manuals :-P)

I'm not ignoring you, or degrading you. These are just the reasons I have for creating the new and current system.

I have my work cut out for me for alpha 5 (including making a few more levels,) but it'll be out soon enough. I really do appreciate your feedback, and I'm glad you are helping me to improve this game.
Logged
I don't traverse the forums as much anymore. Follow me on Twitter if you want to keep tabs on me!

Twitter: @YoSniperGames
Twitch: yosniper

Streams happen whenever I feel like it.

MetaKK

  • PRO-Tier
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
    • View Profile
    • My Youtube Channel
Re: Detonation Zone V2 *ALPHA 4, WITH LEVEL EDITOR*
« Reply #52 on: March 11, 2013, 09:59:44 am »

Played around for a bit with the Alpha 4.5 you posted in Rawrzaur's stream.

I don't know exactly what caused this problem, but there's something wrong with the spikes if you place them in a 270° angle on a wall and die to them. After dying and trying to test it again it transforms into a big pool of spikes that doesn't interact with the player at all and causes horrible lag. Also the Spike Object itself doesn't seem to be editable anymore.

Video showcase: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDtjSYuG__o

Whether or not the conditions for saving a level are met doesn't seem to matter. Also this only occurred in the "Test Level" feature, saving and loading it from the User Levels menu like you normally would doesn't affect the spikes at all.
________________________

(Though this is probably already fixed and it's my own fault for using and unfinished Alpha, but I guess it can't hurt to report it anyway.)
Logged

YoSniper

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 706
  • Code blooded. Check it and see.
    • View Profile
    • My YouTube channel
Re: Detonation Zone V2 *ALPHA 4, WITH LEVEL EDITOR*
« Reply #53 on: March 11, 2013, 10:46:46 am »

Played around for a bit with the Alpha 4.5 you posted in Rawrzaur's stream.

I don't know exactly what caused this problem, but there's something wrong with the spikes if you place them in a 270° angle on a wall and die to them. After dying and trying to test it again it transforms into a big pool of spikes that doesn't interact with the player at all and causes horrible lag. Also the Spike Object itself doesn't seem to be editable anymore.

Video showcase: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDtjSYuG__o

Whether or not the conditions for saving a level are met doesn't seem to matter. Also this only occurred in the "Test Level" feature, saving and loading it from the User Levels menu like you normally would doesn't affect the spikes at all.
________________________

(Though this is probably already fixed and it's my own fault for using and unfinished Alpha, but I guess it can't hurt to report it anyway.)

Thank you for finding this, and your timing couldn't have been better. I was just about to release alpha 5. I found what was causing the trouble and the issue appears to be rectified for alpha 5, along with every other bug that was reported during the stream.

I am a little concerned about the lag issue, which appears to be resurfacing despite the revamped drawing plan. Spikes are particularly a culprit because I have to layer them behind each other so that depth perception issues don't arise. However, I think I can circumvent the same kinds of issues with blocks if I take out the transparency thing I have going now.

Would you be opposed to having blocks be completely opaque all the time? The player's and crystal's shadows should pinpoint their locations and depths fairly well.
Logged
I don't traverse the forums as much anymore. Follow me on Twitter if you want to keep tabs on me!

Twitter: @YoSniperGames
Twitch: yosniper

Streams happen whenever I feel like it.

MetaKK

  • PRO-Tier
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
    • View Profile
    • My Youtube Channel
Re: Detonation Zone V2 *ALPHA 5, WITH LEVEL EDITOR*
« Reply #54 on: March 11, 2013, 07:56:49 pm »

Some bugs i came across:

1. I have no idea why, but sometimes when the player dies (tested with plasm clouds and spikes) it doesn't fade out even after the timer reaches 0 so i had to F2 out several times. This seems to happen completly at random, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

2. The "Edit Object" feature doesn't seem to work a lot of times even though the crosshair is placed correctly, deleting on the other hand works just fine. (I had this issue mainly with blocks)

Also, The targeting system needs to be improved. It's already kind of difficult to find the correct depth, so targeting a little black dot doesn't help much.

3. The radius on plasm clouds is still not editable, I'm just going to guess it's a severe coding error that takes a lot of time.

However, I think I can circumvent the same kinds of issues with blocks if I take out the transparency thing I have going now.

Would you be opposed to having blocks be completely opaque all the time? The player's and crystal's shadows should pinpoint their locations and depths fairly well.

Well the problem with that would be that level structures like this:



Wouldn't be possible anymore because they're unplayable (Yay for not seeing the player).
On the other hand, this is just a guess but, i think it's the drawing of the sprites with the transparency that's causing problems like this in the editor


(The spikes are actually behind the blocks)


So my best guess would be to have transparency work similarly to the old Alpha 9.1, only around the player, rather than taking it out completly. It's an important gameplay element after all.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 09:05:55 pm by MetaKK »
Logged

YoSniper

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 706
  • Code blooded. Check it and see.
    • View Profile
    • My YouTube channel
Re: Detonation Zone V2 *ALPHA 5, WITH LEVEL EDITOR*
« Reply #55 on: March 12, 2013, 04:41:25 pm »

Some bugs i came across:

1. I have no idea why, but sometimes when the player dies (tested with plasm clouds and spikes) it doesn't fade out even after the timer reaches 0 so i had to F2 out several times. This seems to happen completly at random, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

2. The "Edit Object" feature doesn't seem to work a lot of times even though the crosshair is placed correctly, deleting on the other hand works just fine. (I had this issue mainly with blocks)

Also, The targeting system needs to be improved. It's already kind of difficult to find the correct depth, so targeting a little black dot doesn't help much.

3. The radius on plasm clouds is still not editable, I'm just going to guess it's a severe coding error that takes a lot of time.

So, I think I've been able to identify the root cause of all 3 issues reported here. I will spend the next day or so developing a method to improve the targeting system so that you don't have to locate a black dot in space.

As for the transparency issue, I think what I'm going to do is make the entire block partially transparent if one or more players are directly behind it (which is more complicated than you might think, given that blocks are layered along the z axis in order to improve depth perception.) I can't do the transparent window around the player because unlike v1, a single block object can be any size, pretty much. This way, I reduce the number of objects present in a chamber.
Logged
I don't traverse the forums as much anymore. Follow me on Twitter if you want to keep tabs on me!

Twitter: @YoSniperGames
Twitch: yosniper

Streams happen whenever I feel like it.

MetaKK

  • PRO-Tier
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
    • View Profile
    • My Youtube Channel
Re: Detonation Zone V2 *ALPHA 5, WITH LEVEL EDITOR*
« Reply #56 on: March 12, 2013, 09:47:42 pm »

I can't do the transparent window around the player because unlike v1, a single block object can be any size, pretty much. This way, I reduce the number of objects present in a chamber.

Yeah, I already kind of figured something like that would be the case, I have no idea of programming.
_________________

I got an error trying to place down a flipper.


___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 1
of Draw Event
for object world:

In script drawHologram:
Error in code at line 47:
                     getRelativeCoordinate(x, y, chamber.angle, 1) - z*camera.vert/30, b.xsc, 1, b.angle, make_color_rgb(0, 96, 0), 0.5);
                                                                                                                   ^
at position 114: Unknown variable xsc


The room looked like this if that helps any, I may have just placed it inside the block or something.

Logged

YoSniper

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 706
  • Code blooded. Check it and see.
    • View Profile
    • My YouTube channel
Re: Detonation Zone V2 *ALPHA 5, WITH LEVEL EDITOR*
« Reply #57 on: March 13, 2013, 10:44:48 am »

I got an error trying to place down a flipper.

___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 1
of Draw Event
for object world:

In script drawHologram:
Error in code at line 47:
                     getRelativeCoordinate(x, y, chamber.angle, 1) - z*camera.vert/30, b.xsc, 1, b.angle, make_color_rgb(0, 96, 0), 0.5);
                                                                                                                   ^
at position 114: Unknown variable xsc
Thanks for finding this. I found the cause of the error right away and corrected it. I also found a few more bugs on my own that I managed to correct (like a floating crystal if you die and you had the crystal magnet power-up.)

Also, you appear to be right about transparency in the blocks and spikes causing much of the lag. I took out the transparency for the spikes alone, and the induced lag was significantly reduced (the game ran at 25 fps instead of 17 for a particular level.)

I know you mentioned that certain configurations of a level would be made much more difficult if I took out the transparency in the blocks as well, however I feel that down the line I might just do that anyway, and consciously design levels so that the player is visible for the majority of the level. In the original Blast Chamber, I definitely recall levels where certain objects like switches were completely concealed because no blocks were ever transparent.

It's still really early in the game right now, but that's what I'm thinking for the long term.
Logged
I don't traverse the forums as much anymore. Follow me on Twitter if you want to keep tabs on me!

Twitter: @YoSniperGames
Twitch: yosniper

Streams happen whenever I feel like it.

MetaKK

  • PRO-Tier
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
    • View Profile
    • My Youtube Channel
Re: Detonation Zone V2 *ALPHA 5, WITH LEVEL EDITOR*
« Reply #58 on: March 13, 2013, 11:29:01 am »

(...) and consciously design levels so that the player is visible for the majority of the level.

The thing about level editors is that the line between making absolutely sure nothing will ever go wrong in the editor and robbing the aspiring level creator of the possibilites to implement his creativity exactly as he wants is extremely thin.

By that you pretty much force a whole lot of possible levels out, and thus probably a fair amount of level makers.

From what I got so far the only real issue is lag, but other than the one bug with the spike pool which is fixed by now, I haven't experienced any at all. The only halfway decent solution I see is making the transparency an option that can be toggled off if needed.

On the other hand that would mean that you can't take any levels that rely on transparency into the full game because players that have it toggled off wouldn't be able to finish them. A whole other story would be to have 2 level packs, one with transparency, one without.

But all of these things would probably bring more lag with them than they are actually supposed to prevent. I just wanted to throw some ideas in on the off chance that maybe one of them is actually possible.
_______________________________

I'm a big fan of level editors but more often than not you're way too limited in them (you can look at Super Smash Bros. Brawl for an example of this). If nothing else helps, I guess the only real possibility is to take the transparency out like you said, and an unplayable game isn't of use for anybody, but i don't know I just really like it.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 11:31:41 am by MetaKK »
Logged

YoSniper

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 706
  • Code blooded. Check it and see.
    • View Profile
    • My YouTube channel
Re: Detonation Zone V2 *ALPHA 5, WITH LEVEL EDITOR*
« Reply #59 on: March 13, 2013, 02:38:50 pm »

Yeah, making the blocks fully opaque definitely did the trick. Levels are now running between 27 and 30 fps now.

I know I'm probably going to get some dick levels down the road where people either put a block at the very front that completely conceals the player, or has a bunch of concealed objects, but I feel that this is the right move. I'm now looking at the new selection process for editing/deleting objects in the editor. Should be ready by the end of the week.
Logged
I don't traverse the forums as much anymore. Follow me on Twitter if you want to keep tabs on me!

Twitter: @YoSniperGames
Twitch: yosniper

Streams happen whenever I feel like it.
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6